Arno Raps

With Silverlight and Flash around, I'm afraid with this lack of progress, it's to late for javaFX.

With C# and .NET and friends around, I'm afraid with this lack of progress, it's too late for Java. Really now, Java hasn't had any development in the core components since 1.5, which was released years ago, while C# / .NET raced past it since then, both in terms of features and adoption by both programmers and companies.

Oracle needs to step up and do something with it, instead of leaving it somewhere in a maze of committees and the open source community. JavaFX is nice, but it came at an unfortunate time (right when both Microsoft and Adobe announced new related products, only after them), and right now it's not seeing much development anymore, based on this post.

@YopY: From what I understand Java is still very much present in the older business companies.

Don't mix Java and JavaFX. Java is a fully grown language, just like C#. It does look like C# is growing faster than Java, but C# is much younger.

It doesn't only look like, it is. That's the advantage of one company setting the rule for a programming language. Important choices can be made faster, new features can be implemented quicker. How many years are they working on closures in Java 7?

[Comment edited on Thursday 05 August 2010 16:26]

Sebazzz wrote on Thursday 05 August 2010 @ 16:24:
@YopY: From what I understand Java is still very much present in the older business companies.

JAVA is still big. very big

[Comment edited on Thursday 05 August 2010 16:25]

1.

There is no offline / downloadable deploy option.

Ik heb het niet zelf geprobeerd, maar hier staat m.i. toch een "Standard Execution" optie:

Run as a stand-alone desktop application by using the standard javafx execution command.

2.

no Tree for example (although it was promised and is included as a beta)

Die preview controls zullen voor zover ik weet toch gewoon opgenomen worden in de volgende release? De API kan misschien nog lichtjes veranderen, maar dat is toch geen reden om die controls nog niet te gebruiken?

3.

Slow starting

Slow is relatief natuurlijk.

4.

On some hardware it fails to render the graphics (openGL problems on some macbooks) thats hardly write-once-run-everywhere...

Mag ik je eraan herinneren dat Apple het nodig vindt om zijn eigen Java te brouwen & het dus evengoed aan hen kan liggen? Bovendien is het een kwestie van tijd voor zo 'n problemen opgelost worden.

5.

Still no news about 1.4 release timeline or any news about the promised composer tool.

De composer tool is sinds NetBeans 6.9 geïntegreerd & de 1° preview was sinds december beschikbaar, zie hier

Conclusie: ik heb zelf geen ervaring met JavaFX, maar de redenen die je aanhaalt vind ik niet overtuigend.

[

YopY wrote on Thursday 05 August 2010 @ 15:57:
[...]


With C# and .NET and friends around, I'm afraid with this lack of progress, it's too late for Java. Really now, Java hasn't had any development in the core components since 1.5, which was released years ago, while C# / .NET raced past it since then, both in terms of features and adoption by both programmers and companies.

Oracle needs to step up and do something with it, instead of leaving it somewhere in a maze of committees and the open source community. JavaFX is nice, but it came at an unfortunate time (right when both Microsoft and Adobe announced new related products, only after them), and right now it's not seeing much development anymore, based on this post.

Java mag dan deprecated zijn, de enorme legacy zal het nog wel een jaar of tien levend houden.

Its still the only way to make real platform indepentent software. ( Yes, C# is able to do so too, but the Mono project isn't as fast as Microsoft )

With C++/Qt you can also make real platform independent software, you just have to recompile it on your target platform

qless wrote on Thursday 05 August 2010 @ 16:36:
. ( Yes, C# is able to do so too, but the Mono project isn't as fast as Microsoft )

Then develop the other way around. Develop software on mono, and once done port it to .net .

@qless: bedankt voor de link naar die design tool

analog_ wrote on Thursday 05 August 2010 @ 16:52:
[
[...]

Java mag dan deprecated zijn, de enorme legacy zal het nog wel een jaar of tien levend houden.

Dat geloof je nu toch zelf niet? Je doet alsof Java met uitsterven bedreigd is.

C# is gewoon geen leuke optie, - mono is echt bagger .. (in mijn ervaring als gebruiker, dus niet programmeur). dus wat moet je dan, Silverlight gaan ook niet snel genoeg moonlight blijft gewoon enorm achterlopen. en java is ook een onder geschoven kind.

kortom, eigenlijk zouden we beter gewoon eens een nieuwe Open Java Alternative moete zoeken,

een bedrijf als Google, zou daar prima aan kunne beginnen maar ook Novel is een goede kanshebber om iets te starten. of zelfs Nokia (met QT als basis van een daaromheen gebouwde hoge programmeertaal (bij voorkeur hoge taal dan wel) ...

With C# and .NET and friends around, I'm afraid with this lack of progress, it's too late for Java.

So where exactly does .NET stand out in besides not being crossplatform ? Its basically Java exclusively for Windows. Like stated earlier, Mono is no alternative. Mono is .NET 2.5 compatible at best, while the reference platform is at 4.0. Also Mono offers a migration tool. Why would I need a migration tool if it supposed to be compatible ?

Really now, Java hasn't had any development in the core components since 1.5, which was released years ago, while C# / .NET raced past it since then, both in terms of features and adoption by both programmers and companies.

Well after Java 5 there was Java 6 ? And Java 7 is just around the corner.

Also Java doesn't really do big bang releases like Microsoft does with .NET. Java EE 6 was released recently. I think we can call that a major overhaul. You obviously don't understand the Java ecosystem. I suggest you take a look at http://www.jcp.org .

Speaking of JCP, if I want to implement a compatible .NET platform, where can I download the specification and test toolkits from the Microsoft site ? The only thing that had it spec released is C#. But thats only the language, not the platform. Even simple stuff like serialization is part of the platform, not the language.

Oracle needs to step up and do something with it, instead of leaving it somewhere in a maze of committees and the open source community.

Well I don't see the problem here. Foundations like Apache, OSGi and Eclipse are doing a fine job. A beter job then Sun ever did with Java or Microsoft with .NET. I mean heck, even Microsoft emulates what Eclipse is doing : http://redmondmag.com/art...icrosoft-names-orcas.aspx

And to get back on the subject: Yeah JavaFX sucks. If I need a fully customized GUI I use Swing, Java2D is on of the better graphic API's. If you need native go for SWT.

Wasn't Java created to overcome the problem of productivity with c++ btw?

JavaFX 2 is as bad as the first one..
there is no way ill do XML crap..

Java FX 2 is a big step up over FX 1. The crappy FX language is gone.

XML sucks, but it in no way is it required.

I have done a few FX apps without XML, and it is fairly slick. Nowhere near QT but not bad.

The only annoyance is that when adding or removing elements you sometimes get long method call chains, always going through an arraylist.